2017 has been a fairly busy year for me. As a result I have written less online than I did in 2016. That isn't to say 2016 wasn't busy (it was the year things really started to pick up on the DJing front for me) but I had more time. I think the difference this year is my focus increasing on the event management side of things. Plus a lot of family stuff I have had to deal with. Its hard to get inspired when you are feeling emotionally drained.
Enough about that. You didn't come here to read my pissing and moaning about boring, mundane things. You came here to be entertained by my pissing and moaning about the goth subculture. So here we go.
But I think the two mostly speak for themselves regarding the topic at hand. I can't really add anything as I am not trans.
Alas, I am a mere crossdresser. And a part-timer at that.
Best to just listen to what they say. But I can comment on how people have reacted. I think the reactions are pretty telling of where we are really at - at least in the online world.
To start with, when I shared the article I posted it with the following statement from myself :
"It could also be said that the goth subculture is a bit of a "safe space" of sorts for trans people, many who want a place where they can blend in and become invisible. Good for some, not for others. Depends on their motivation and experiences.
One good point says its hard to tell if are they recognised for being trans or for being goth. Also acknowledging how invaluable the goth subculture is for many as it helps in coming out/transitioning.
I can't say I really have an opinion on this either way. I'm not going to spout hate as I have seen in a few places where this has been posted. I'm not going to spout unwavering support either as I don't necessarily agree with every statement. But I am listening (well, reading) to see what they have to say.
People feel how they feel. You can't tell people how to feel but you can try to understand why. I'm looking forward to hearing Cemetery Confessions covering this soon."
Rather than repeat and cherry pick quotes, I have posted screen captures of the comments in APPENDIX A at the end of the article. I think they speak for themselves. Its easy to take statements out of context so make of it what you will.
Later I do this again for Cemetery Confessions in APPENDIX B and C. Everything on the table as is, unedited, laid bare. No one can cry foul as I blocked out the names and it was all posted publicly anyway. I'm just highlighting it because it needs to be seen in its entirety no matter how long and unweildy it may seem. Plus its the internet so it is a tad entertaining. Bring popcorn if you must.
Drama? On the internet?
I originally got the article from Cemetery Confessions' Facebook page. Those screen captures are below in APPENDIX B. Prepare yourself, those comments get a little rough!
To quote the last comment "I sure hope the podcast is gonna be better than these comments..."
I couldn't agree more! At least one of the people commenting in that conversation was one of the podcast guests too. And interestingly enough she made the same point she makes in the conversation in the podcast episode. I'll let you listen to figure that one out. Come on - I can't give you all the answers so easy.
Riddle me this, Gothman!
(or Gothwoman. Or Gothnon-binary. Or Gothtrans. Or Gothgenderqueer. I'll stop now.)
On to the podcast. It was pretty much what I expected. I know some trans people in meat space and they have said some similar things and I have done a lot of reading online so it was nothing new for me. But for someone who hasn't had any experience with trans people it would be enlightening.
I would have liked to have heard from a trans man too as the experience isn't quite the same. But you never know, that may come in the future on Cemetery Confessions. Or maybe its already happened and we didn't know. I'd like to think that happened.
So how did people react to the podcast? APPENDIX C contains what is on Cemetery Confessions' wall as of 1:30pm, 5th July 2017 (Adelaide, Australia time).
I missed the boat on the conversation and I have yet to get a reply. I'm posting my reply right here.
This is what Cemetery Confessions is all about though - podcasts! The Facebook page is merely another way to be in contact with the fans of said podcast. Or maybe its become more now? Has Cemetery Confessions' Facebook presence been reduced to yet another goth fan meme page that shares pictures and articles of interest that people just gloss over and "like" for the status of it?
Subcultural capital (I still love that phrase - cheers to The Count for using it and making me aware of it) doesn't work like that. You can't passively get respect in the goth subculture by clicking the like button. Even the most shallow who focus only on clothing and style do more to earn their reputation than that.
Especially this guy
Back onto the comments and reactions to the podcast posting. Its worth noting there are two angry reacts to the podcast vs over 100 likes and loves. What I don't get is this. Why - on a podcast that changes topics and features many non-goth topics as well as goth topics (all things goths might be interested in) - is there a need for so much negativity in the comments just because the podcast episode simply exists?
Here is a list I made of Cemetery Confessions episode topics that covered relatively non-goth things but talked about in relation to goth :
- Dealing with death
- Mother's Day (marriage and parenting)
- Discrimination and social prejudice
- Gender norms
- Paranormal Activity
- Mental Illness
- Misogyny and Industrial
- Ghosts and Graveyards
- Horror Films
- Racism and comodification
None of these got the negative reaction this podcast has. Hell, the elitism one I was in I expected a lot of fire and none came. I expected fire for a lot of my past articles here. Again, none came. But post something about trans people and tie it in with goth...
I think its clear enough even with me blocking out names and not sticking to the same colour codes between the article and podcast reaction comments than there are a couple of commenters who posted on both between APPENDIX B and C. Commenters who are more on the side against trans being discussed alongside goth like this. It makes me wonder if they really think broader sociopolitical issues don't belong or if they only don't belong if they are opposing views to their own.
The worst bit is people are negatively reacting just because of the mere existence of this podcast and they haven't even bothered to listen to see if there is anything to be angry about.
If you must get mad and argumentative, do it for the right reasons. Be informed on the topic at hand, If that means opening a link and doing some reading, watching or listening then do it. Too many people jump into things without making sure they know what they are jumping into. Plus the internet is littered with clickbaity titled joke articles nowadays. You might just be arguing for something satirical that doesn't exist but looks like something your opposing views would say.
The joke's on you Gothman/Gothwoman/Gothnon-binary/Gothtrans/Gothgenderqueer!
We aren't all going to agree. I found myself agreeing with a lot more in the podcast than I did with the article. Personally, I don't see a problem that trans people can become invisible in the goth subculture. In fact for many it's an attraction to it. Goths generally - hard to say if all would given the comments below - accept trans people as they present themselves. The downside is you won't stick out if that is what you want. But there are goths who do stick out (in a good way) and make a positive reputation for themselves. In a way, this means trans people may have a more even footing for doing so than they might in the mainstream world at this point in time.
Are trans people expected to "out-goth" other goths just to be seen as equals? I can't comment on that as I am not trans. But I would love to hear from any trans people who are willing to answer to hear how they feel about it.
APPENDIX A - article posted on my facebook wall comments
APPENDIX B - article posted on Cemetery Confessions' wall comments
APPENDIX C - podcast posted on Cemetery Confessions' wall comments
BONUS for getting this far!
If you must listen to that early, early episode I am on (You'll have more fun with the two Gothquisitions as I'm a better idiot in those) this is it
We discuss elitism. With the way many people percieve me online that should be no surprise. Its only the 4th podcast so the format is a little different to what we are used to now. Its still pretty relevant I think though. Enjoy!
-Aytakk has been active in the goth scene since the mid 90s both online and in real life. He firmly believes in the old line "if you don't get the joke, you are the joke". As well as this he produces music for a couple of music projects: Corpulence On The Catwalk (goth/darkwave/coldwave) and Hypnophile (aggrotech/power noise). He is also a club DJ and nemesis of DJ Jelly.